Len 0:02
Welcome. My name is Len Lane, and I am the founder and president of Brokers for Life Inc., and we are Dominion Lending Centers in Western Canada. The topic of our podcast will be about what we consider to be Real Life Mortgage Solutions.

Len Lane 0:19
Welcome back. We’re already into January of 2025 it’s hard to imagine how fast this year is going by already. My guest today is Shane Parker King’s Council. King’s Council is new for him, as well as the rest of us. He is a partner at Parker Dubrule Szaszkiewicz, for which our PDS Law, whichever one you want to use. So Shane, now welcome to the show.

Shane 0:41
Yeah, I appreciate that, Len and sometimes we joke with our name Parkerborough Saskawich, which is hard to you, enunciated that very well, but we have a registered trading PDS Law, which is usually easier for people to remember, but but happy to be here and to review mortgages in real estate.

Len 0:58
Yeah, totally. That was easier one with just Parker Dubrule, but now you throw in the third one there. So, you know, lots of changes you and I have seen. We were discussing how long we’ve been at this, and it’s going on 30 years for both of us, between real estate mortgages and in my side and straight real estate law on your side. You know, probably one of the biggest conversations we’re having with clients lately is that the change in the cost of registering mortgage title in Alberta had a considerable change, actually, and one we haven’t seen for quite a while. Maybe address what change you’re seeing on your end.

Shane 1:36
Yeah, and I think that’s it’s a good practical issue, and, you know, we’ve both been around a long time, and land titles fees, of the you know, they’ve gone up, and there was a period where they actually went down, which was kind of welcomed, you know, as part of the industry, I think there’s a good argument that, you know, Land Titles should certainly pay for itself, but doesn’t need to charge enough to make a bunch of profit. And I think that’s debatable, and I leave that for others to argue, but fees have gone up and down over my 30 years. Recently, they’ve gone up. And I respect on the political side that we we apparently still have some of the lowest registration cross costs across Canada. So I appreciate that. Our provincial budget that came out in February of 2024 announced land title increases that came into force on October 20, 2024 so that means documents that were submitted on or after October 20 had the new fee structure. So what does that mean for, I mean, typically on the mortgage broker side, you’re acting for purchasers. Generally in real estate, it’s a purchaser who incurs the cost of registration at land title, so registering the transfer in the mortgage. So pre October 20, if I use it as an example, a $500,000 property and a $450,000 mortgage, those land title registration fees would be approximately $330 and it’s always a function of the value of the property and the amount of the mortgage. So that’s still what it is, but except the numbers are increased. So today, registering a $500,000 property would be $550 registering a $450,000 mortgage would be $500 so a total of $1050 so comparing where we were $330 to today, $1050, so 3 times the cost. And again, that would vary size of the transaction, but a pretty significant increase, and it affects purchasers. It’s a closing cost that it is what it is now. What we try to do, like, like other lawyers, we really try and be careful explaining all about cost. And in my mind, cost has three components, legal fees, disbursements, GST. Legal fees, you know, that should be broken down separately. Disbursements should be true third Party costs paid to third parties, like land titles in real estate, the biggest disbursement is land titles. Other disbursements include things like couriers. And couriers too have gone up over the years, $45 for a courier, typically on the purchaser side, we have to courier out the closing funds on the closing day to the seller’s lawyer, who then coordinates with the realtors to release keys. So all costs going up. I’ll try and explain that effectively to people, so there’s no surprises. And then GST of about $200 and so we do that on our side, we have it posted on our website, which, which a lot of law firms do. It’s going to be transparent about cost, but to your narrow point, have they gone up? Yes,

Len 5:05
yeah. And it’s interesting two things there in that to actually they’ll have to courier money to other lawyers in 2025 but that part hasn’t changed, I guess so sometimes over the years. But it’s a cost that we’re seeing some of our lenders, one of the big red bank does a cash back to the client, and they’ve actually increased it to cover some of that. We’re also seeing it in the title insurance companies, where they’ve had, obviously, everybody has had to increase it, and they’ve changed their numbers quite a bit as well. So you’ve seen 10s of 1000s of files, I’m sure, probably lost track a long time ago. So what are some of the biggest issues you see at closing that could have possibly been avoided?

Shane 5:46
And I think that the challenge in, you know, in this kind of, there’s different parts of the real estate ballpark, and they each have issues in common, but from the mortgage broker perspective, which is typically involved in, you know, purchase and mortgage transaction. One of the challenges is conditions not being met. Between, not so much on the broker, but with the with the lender, and we’re not, on the law firm side, we get instructions from the bank. Bank will tell us to comply with one to 10, and we comply, it’s they sometimes joke, it’s the golden rule. Banks out the gold. They make the rule. If they say, comply with one to 10. I respectfully do and make sure we hit we check off the boxes properly. But what we found, and I reviewed with the legal assistants here, which, you know, one of the things I sometimes joke about legal asistants do 90% of the work. They may say 99% but they clearly do a ton of the preparation work, so that I’m left with two inches of documents to review with the client and one of their, when I reviewed with them again, it’s, it’s something that I’m aware of is, is we’re not aware if there can be certain internal conditions between broker and bank that may not be satisfied that we’re not aware and so that affects timing. The other thing that happens is, again, a version of the golden rule. Perhaps banks have the gold, they make the rule. We can get new conditions from a lender all the way up to the funding time. And so if there’s new conditions that are imposed respectfully, we have to comply in order to process the funds. So, and that’s probably the biggest challenge, from where you sit at perhaps, and from where I sit is solving the bank making sure, because out of the transaction, you know, I’m pretty straightforward and simple guy. Three things happen in real estate. A seller gets paid, a buyer gets good title, and bank gets good security. Well, what does good security mean? Good security means they’re registered, typically as they first financial charge in the property, and we’ve complied with all of their requirements. And if their requirements are evolving, it’s hard for us to to match that. If the closing date is the next day,

Len 8:06
Yeah, I can, I can see that being an issue, yeah, and it’s interesting. It’s one of the things that I guess, can teach with our new agents all the way through, and we’re training a ton of them at the moment, but the bank asks you for something, or the lender asks you for something. They’re asking for a reason and make sure that it happens far enough in advance that they have, closing is not the day we want to do this. It’s an interesting

Shane 8:29
I try to be respectful and courteous of all the parties. Everybody is trying to do their part. Mortgage instructions may come out closer to possession than I would like, but there could be reasons for that. So what I try and do with the purchasers give them comfort that, you know, I have the contract, typically from the realtor. I have mortgage instructions from the broker slash bank. I put those together, we generate our paperwork, and we work towards closing. So it’s not really about assigning blame. It’s about a team effort to close the deal in accordance with the contract, get that closing date, because you know potentially significant repercussions if you don’t close on time. If you don’t close on time, it’s a breach. Which, at a minimum, you’re paying interest on the monies, and you may not be getting keys right.

Len 9:17
And that’s something I, we’ve always emphasized. We with one closing this last month because of a lender that changed something at the last minute and that we didn’t know about. In all honesty, with our 18 years of experience in mortgages, I can count on one hand how many, how many we’ve actually missed because of that, and it’s rare, but yeah. They, like you said, they have the gold that they decide at the last minute that something else is going to change, or if a broker didn’t get the paperwork to them fast enough that, you know, that’s, uh, that causes issues all the way around. So, yeah.

Shane 9:55
I think that’s one of the things that, after, you know, 30 plus years. It really is a team to close with the realtor on the front end, the mortgage broker, and then the lawyer and good communication with all parties. And if a bank, you know, requests one to 10, we comply. Now certain things we may have to amend and tinker with in order that we can properly comply. But that’s the goal, and really hasn’t changed in 30 years. I like to say timing is going to get better, but I assume it won’t, so I try, and I know right before this meeting, I had somebody swing by closing tomorrow, bank issued new mortgage instructions, which tinkered with dates, and bank wanted paperwork re signed, and so we got them in, closing tomorrow. Hopefully will still happen. I think it will. But again, it’s not. You can’t get frustrated. You deal with the basket of issues and you move things along.

Len 10:57
Yeah, that’s uh, that kind of segues into the next part. So clients come into your office, how can they be better prepared, I guess to, I’m sure you give them a long list. We’ve done this with you a couple of times personally, so we’re aware of more things than some of our regular clients would be. So what is it that they can do better? Or what? What do they really need to have and pay attention to to make sure that everything when they get there, they’re only going to go there once.

Shane 11:25
You bet, yeah, and that’s the goal, is try to have a streamlined process. Take the some frustration and anxiety out of the process, explain that they are protected in the transaction. But the same way, I think the realtor and the broker on the front end is we really need a purchaser to be diligent in their own affairs. They need to read the documents that come to them. We typically send out an email from the legal assistant you know that breaks down what’s required. Identification is a key one. Our identification rules are all they’re, they’re being reconsidered, you know, perhaps yearly. But we basically say bring in two pieces of picture identification, preferably driver’s license and passport, both current. All banks want at least one piece of ID. Some want to. Some are specific about what they won’t accept. So we tend to be very specific in our email the client, saying, bring in a and b, and so that’s one thing just in with respect to the purchasers, they may miss something and they they’ve got a lot going on with the purchase. You know, they could be moving from one place to another. They’ve got kids, they’ve got they’ve got dogs, they’ve got a lot of things going on. But I would say, you know when, when you get the email from the lawyer, typically the lawyer’s assistant, you know, diligently review what’s required, bring those things with you to the appointment. Questions you can call the lawyer or the assistant to clarify ahead of time. So I think it just probably from where you sit too, good communication always helps. But most times, people are they’ve read the email, they’ve complied. And so our appointments tend to be pretty smooth going through what’s important for a purchaser to feel comfortable with the closing documents.

Len 13:20
And you know, identification changed for us as well back in October, when the AML Rules came in full force with us. Fortunately, because of the background system we used through Dominion Lending that’s now first step. Doesn’t matter, you get started an application, sure you need a lot of employment or pay stub, but identification needs to be in every file already for us, so they’re well aware that is part of what the program will be all the way through for them.

Shane 13:49
Yeah, and that’s, you know, in with identification, so in person, great. I always prefer to meet with people. We’ll see people in the evenings. We’ll see people on the weekends, but there’s occasions where people are out of country or out of province, where we can see people on a Zoom on an online video conferencing session. Those rules are constantly evolving, and the ID requirements are as well, where purchasers have to upload identification to a third party software company, and that ID either gets approved or not. We had one recently that was not approved, a combination of change of names and moving different provinces where I didn’t have a concern that the couple weren’t who they said they were, but one passed, one didn’t, therefore we couldn’t do the Zoom. So the next option is they have to go see a lawyer in BC to sign up for My Documents and then return the original ink signatures.

Len 14:51
Right? So yeah, ink signatures were pretty much the only way at one time, right? But so, yeah, so that just because of switches. We use a company called Fast Key, and so that kind of does the same thing, but the AML rulings for us is, if we pull the credit bureau, and there’s less than three years of credit bureau, then we have to actually do exactly the same thing, take the driver’s license, run it through the system, make sure they are who they say they are, right? So I think that it’s come a long way, because I’m sure there was for years that nobody, nobody, until you actually got to the lawyers nobody had ever checked ID and stuff like that in a lot of cases.

Shane 15:31
No, and so you’re right in your and even the realtors. I mean, realtors have to, you know, know your client and verification rules, mortgage brokers, and certainly under the Law Society, we follow those guidelines. You know, there can be again, in person is always preferred with our land title system, you know, we require the original ink signature back. And so that’s a big, cumbersome and that surprises some purchasers, because they can, they typically, or they could sign the AREA, the Alberta Real Estate Association standard form documents with DocuSign. A lot of the world works well with DocuSign, but our land title systems requires that ink signature.

Len 16:11
Yeah, it really was the pandemic that brought that DocuSign to the forefront for us, even right up until 2021 Scotiabank, everything had to be signed live, right? So the use of DocuSign wasn’t accepted at all, even ATB, before the longest time was the same. Now we’ll accept that, but then you have to get them the DocuSign confirmation as well. That’s pretty simple to do, right? So, yeah, it’s a changing world when it comes to anything that needs to be signed.

Shane 16:41
I think that’s right. And in the goal of all the team in the closing of a real estate matter, I think bid communication timing is always going to be less than ideal. And so we try and be as flexible and as we can, and try and give that purchaser some comfort to know that we’re going to navigate this together. And more times than not, it turns out just fine.

Len 17:06
Yeah, and that’s the biggest thing. Working it together, you and I have worked on a few deals and like that. Your support staff is excellent, they’re, on top of things, well, well in advance. So that always helps, that helps to close.

Shane 17:17
And that’s, and I make the joke, and it is probably not a joke, is when I meet with the people, I always give them, I say that I’ll give you the more important card first, and that’s the legal assistant. Because the legal assistant will always know what’s going on. I tend to not, unless there’s a problem, then we figure out how to fix it. So you’re right, it’s a team effort within the law firm between the legal assistant and a lawyer, but we’ll guide people through the process, you know? But the earlier we get the contracts from the realtors, the earlier we get mortgage instructions, the more flexibility we have with people in scheduling into their their availability, and then closing on time, which is the goal for everybody.

Len 18:00
Yeah, and that’s one key part, and it’s great that you work evenings and weekends, because there’s definitely tough to do for a lot of people to tear away when you’re in the process of booking movers and on utilities and doing all that other stuff at the same time. So,

Shane 18:16
Yeah, and, I mean, a lot, a lot of a lot of us, different professionals in real estate, you know, you have to be flexible. You know, I know for myself, I don’t think I work any harder than anybody else, but if I work a Saturday or a Sunday, it may mean I can golf on a Wednesday afternoon.

Len 18:32
Yeah,that’s funny. I just had that conversation with somebody the other day. Weekend is a state of mind around the house. It’s not a day on the calendar, right?

Shane 18:38
I like that. I know somebody said, you know, it takes, you know, 12 months to make a year, some months are busier than others, or seven days to make a week. And if you can be flexible, that people tend to appreciate it, and then you can carve out some different time for yourself.

Len 18:54
Yeah, excellent, so, and I think we’ll end on that positive note. Shane, thank you very much for your time today. It’s always good to get the other side of the view from for our clients, so that they understand what they’re to expect, I guess when it comes time to finally sign off those documents.

Shane 19:09
Well Len, I appreciate the opportunity. You have a great day, and we’ll see you later this year.

Len 19:15
Thanks for listening today. I hope you found the information that we provided to be useful in your mortgage journey, and remember, you can always find our associates at www.brokersforlife.ca/associates. Have a great day.